Transcript:
(00:00) we can't rely on saff we got to look at technology and Innovation and I think the jet zero solution is a great way to address [Music] that this is the time on wi podcast welcome back I'm Courtney Miller with visual approach analytics with me as always Garrick dean of collateral verifications Garrick who are we talking to today we are going to be talking to Ellen Jones another great woman in aviation um she's done quite a bit and so it's going to be pretty exciting to speak with her today so currently she is
(00:39) a strateg strategic adviser at jet zero so that's going to be cool too and she spent a good amount of her career at Pratt where she had she was the VP of Let Me See Asia Pacific Pratt and Whitney that's true Pratt and Whitney exactly and Whitney both she was the uh VP Asia Pacific China sales America sales uh Global customer support she was also um VP of commercial engine and Global Services marketing um I think she started she saided in Washington with Pratt which will be interesting cuz I didn't catch that uh but she had a a
(01:12) position at VP for the T lose operations for Pratt Whitney she was also VP marketing and sales for the engine Alliance so she got to deal with the largest aircraft in the well I guess largest commercial aircraft in the world which is pretty cool um and then she was also president of the engine Alliance which is pretty awesome she is currently also a board member and treasurer for airlink she's a member of The Advisory board for the international Aviation women's Association um she's a board member and was the previous chair for
(01:37) the Connecticut Airport Authority uh she was the past president and board member for The Wings Club um she is she's she's got a BS from Michigan State University got her MBA from De John's Hopkins University so it's going to be great to speak with her today she's uh also she had mentioned you know she's married has a son and so you know even with all of that she's done quite a bit her career so it's going to be really cool to to talk to her today so Mari Ellen this is your time on
(02:06) Wing just a quick intermission before we continue with the show we do get a lot of questions about how our listeners can support the show and frankly the easiest way is to continue the spirit of the show which is just to reach out to us at conferences but we also run businesses as well and you can support us by supporting a lot of the work that we do you can uh support the work that I do through Visual approach by visiting visual approach.
(02:32) where we produce a lot of research and Analysis a lot of data visualizations from my side obviously I focus more on Metals so anything that's you know aircraft related uh if you're looking for valuations whether it's on aircraft engines I'm happy to help with any of those types of projects um so we we appreciate you know certainly the opportunities to to work with all of you and we certainly also appreciate just the fact that people are willing to listen to what we have to say and enjoy kind of our thoughts and takes on what
(02:58) we think is a fascinating industry so thank you okay back to the [Music] show uh MCH thank you very much for for being on the podcast um you know we're certainly looking forward to to speaking with you today um you know as we kind of always start with our guests we we love to kind of get your take on how you guys started in aviation where the passion came from you know we all have that bug that we can't get rid of so um I'll let you tell us kind of where where that all started yeah thanks grick Courtney
(03:30) really happy you invited me to uh to join you today so I got started in aviation really through a combination of necessity and luck um I graduated from college in the early 1980s in the midst of a recession um got married right after college um I'm from New York um and had gone to college in the midwest at Michigan state did not want to stay in the midwest I married a Midwestern guy though who did not want to live in New York so we compromised and moved to the Baltimore DC area and really just pounded the payment for jobs um so I
(04:05) wound up uh fortunately uh working for pratton Whitney UTC in their Washington DC government relations office uh as the assistant to the head of government relations so that's where the necessity and the Luck came in necessity I just needed a job and luck that I happened to to start with pret Whitney and UTC um and further luck there because I had a great boss um and me Mentor um his name was Mel goodweather he was the head of government relations and then his boss Jean Talia was the head of the whole Washington office so you know they saw
(04:39) something in me this kind of you know brand new college kid um you know really working as an admin um but you know you know they would start sending me to Congressional hearings asking me to report back um they would you know take me into meetings with members of Congress and staff um this was the Heyday they would take me to these there were three Martini lunches back then in Washington I have to say in the 80s um so really you know pushed me and pulled me into the business um and then eventually got promoted you know to be
(05:11) kind of a a junior lobbyist and then a kind of a more grown-up lobbyist um working on a number of Defense programs like the c17 for example oh wow um I was also involved and this you know obviously goes back away in the great engine War U that you may remember was you know on the military side Pratt was the single source for the F-15 and F-16 with its F100 engine and GE was knocking at the door hard um Pratt you know I have to say was getting fat and happy back then and we put on a full full boore campaign uh to try to prevent the
(05:48) competition but uh as you well know um the competition went out GE got a second source and and that triggered a whole series of events um but that did give me a lot of exposure uh you know to senior Executives in the company the the military business was based in West Palm Beach Florida at that time so we had a lot of those folks coming up you know going to the Pentagon going to the hill um and then also you know the folks from the headquarters in Harford coming down to work with the FAA Department of Commerce so it just gave me a lot of
(06:20) interaction with senior Executives a lot of visibility you know at a relatively junior level as well as you know I'll call them customers the members of Congress the staff um you know the the different agencies and associations so it was a really good grounding and broadening experience for a kid you know right out of college so you went from Michigan State to the hill yeah yeah as a new and and the Pentagon I'm sorry there was that that that's amazing but again mentors right and people who you know believed in me U
(06:58) because I you know at that stage I was you know I was an admin to head head of government relations I really didn't know much of anything about Washington but they would send me to seminars they you know sent me up to the hill they introduced me to people and you know really gave me lots of opportunity which you know I was I was able to run with so you know that I and I emphasize the importance of mentors and sponsors to you know people that I've coached over the years it's so important you know to
(07:24) have that boost to have somebody really see you and support you and you know build your confidence um so so I I was in DC for seven or eight years these were the 80s the Reagan Administration lots of defense spending so it was a really energetic um and fun job um but then um I was asked to interview for a position at headquarters in E East Hartford um as the speech writer to the president of the company now I had never written a speech in my life okay um but I I think I had proven myself as a good communicator written Communications
(08:01) verbal Communications U you being able to get my point across um and that's I guess another thing that I emphasize to people that I coach is gosh Communications ability succinctness uh good grammar Heavens the the nuns at Sacred Heart certainly drilled that into me um and I think that really helped me certainly make that jump and I think it's helped me throughout my career so that brought me to East Harford to headquarters again now I'm in you know working for the president of the company and with his senior staff writing
(08:31) speeches you know just another great education in getting to know the company and how it worked Derek when's the last time we had a a Bonafide speech writer on the podcast I we we have not we have not that's pretty cool I had I didn't realize you started more like the military side of things yeah yeah okay right right which you know I never would have imagined right so it's just you it just kind of shows again you know Serendipity kind of being in the right place at the right time with the right
(09:00) people to guide you yeah yeah yeah absolutely so you know that was certainly a great education a great opportunity doing that job um from there I did other jobs in Communications working in media relations which I really enjoyed because there again I was working with a customer of sorts right an outside perspective um so that was really uh enjoyable another learning experience I worked you know on Labor Relations issues when there were you know Union negotiations that kind of thing so seeing different parts of the company I
(09:31) also did um eh&s environment health and safety Communications which then brought me to the attention to the head of that organization who then recruited me um to be the head of health and safety for Pratt now and this is I'm going to call it a career misstep nothing happens in a straight line I don't think there's zigs and zabs and sometimes back steps too right so and I say was a misstep because it was a position that I didn't have a particular Zeal or passion for uh it was very internally focused as you can
(10:07) imagine um you know health and safety you know very much shop oriented you know things like machine guards workplace safety you know all super important um I negotiated with the Union at that time The Machinist Union on a no smoking policy and I will have to say they were brutal to me I would go into the ladies room after these sessions and I would cry because they were just awful and I'd have to go out and put my game face on again try and have a cigarette wouldn't you oh well I wish I wish I had smoked I wish I had smoked at that point
(10:38) I would have taken it up um yeah I bet that's that's just that's the worst yeah yeah so so I that I realized this was not the role for me I mean I I took the role because I I was flattered to be asked it was a promotion it was supervising people for the first time so all of those good career type things you want to tick off but the underlying Foundation of just not feeling the passion for the role wasn't there so that's been my overriding lesson and that to share of people you need to feel
(11:10) kind of the oomph in the job I think I mean you can gut it out for a while and I gutted it out for less than a year and I I just had to to do something else how did you transition out of that or so I was able to rely on my network within pre you know again you know being a good communicator you know and just gosh being nice to people right valuing the valuing relationships valuing people so um so I was able to rely on that Network to you know quasi gracefully I guess ease myself out of that and into a a position in commercial engines
(11:44) contracts um so that again another New Field you know contracts and Commercial engines was you know somewhat new to me as well you know getting into the you know the heart of it and that turned out to be really my my continued Runway um you know I really enjoyed that role you know supporting the sales team right as a contracts person learning a lot about engine guarantees and and all of the all of the detail that goes into that learning a lot technically I'm not an engineer uh but thankfully I certainly
(12:14) know a lot of very talented engineers and I asked a lot of questions um which you know is another important attribute I think in any position is to ask questions be curious dig in you know don't you sit on the sidelines and and be afraid to get your hands dirty um so then you know that kind of parlayed its way um into a s position and this was in I don't know the mid 90s um and it was still unusual to have women in sales I think there had been only one other woman in sales at at that time oh wow I don't think she was even there anymore
(12:48) um and there was a position opening up covering leasing companies on the west coast so this was ilfc and gatx and others you know and there was a lot of consternation about oh gee should we put woman in that job you know IC can you know beat you alive and so on but I advocated for myself and I had people advocate for me and got the job and it you know turned into a great opportunity and you know launched me into a series of sales jobs from there actually I had my son right before that he was about a year old when I um when I took that job
(13:22) um so which was involved a lot of travel of course but my husband has been super from day one you know as far as being an equal parent um and we were very fortunate to have great child care we had a woman come to the house with her own child which was just a luxury right to have both a caregiver and a playmate for my son oh yeah home um so that was you know a super fortunate Arrangement um and then after a few years doing leasing um I there was an opening in the tulo office to head the tulo office you know for PRS operations at Airbus um
(13:57) actually it was an opening at Boeing first and I put my in the ring for that and they said oh we already have somebody in mind there but what would you think about too I hadn't really thought about living in France but boy that sounded good um so yeah and my husband once again super supportive said yeah let's do it um my our son was four at the time so we moved over to too Mick yeah Mick my son you know went into school started picking up the language you know as he would uh as a little sponge um and we were there for 3
(14:26) years did a lot of traveling obviously uh over there as a family super easy to do um although unfortunately we were there during 911 so while we had hoped we'd have a lot of visitors family and friends from the states come obviously put a Kai bash on everything um but really enjoyed my time there loved working with airus um loved you know frankly some of the autonomy of having kind of my own team and my own operation over there your own time zone my own time zone having some distance from the mother's ship was was fun um but just
(15:01) again another learning experience right you know the foul was right there we had a team at the final assembly line so engaged with them and just gave engag with Airbus on all levels program management engineering procurement customer support so you know again just a really good broadening and wonderful life experience and then I went back to East Hartford I joined the engine Alliance um as head of sales another cool experience working with GE right uh you know the the Dark Side um but it was it was a really good experience working
(15:33) with them um and in fact I went back to Pratt for a while then I came back to the EA as president um for a number of years which I really enjoyed um and again it's like the head of the UN right well sometimes sometimes we had we had to be Switzerland yes we we considered ourselves Switzerland but but I found um getting those two really strong companies together there was some healthy competition there right neither side wanted to be the one to drop the ball you know especially if you're work C you're working in front of GE and vice
(16:07) versa so you know we round up with a very good engine the gp7000 for the A380 um you know great fuel bur liability all that good stuff um you know as a result of of bringing those you know two cultures together and I will say you know so two US engine manufacturers you know one in East Harford one in Cincinnati how different can they be really different actually um you know culture-wise um you know Pratt I would say was kind of the Kinder gentler approach to life where GE was you know this is still kind of the Jack
(16:40) Welsh or the Jack Welsh leftover days right was um pretty hardcore pretty Cutthroat um you know hard even on their own people never mind the Pratt people so it it's just an interesting Dynamic and that's where we did have to be Switzerland to try to to try to Mill those two um but it worked beautifully and I you know I stay in touch with with my G friends you know still today these you know years later because we we really built a strong bond and and a good product and what was the um trying to think so I think each company was
(17:09) responsible for certain components right on the engine it wasn't a just right right kind of split the engine and half the low spool and the high spool okay basically which that that to me is always amazing because it turn it's like like you say it's kind of like all right so you're going to build this half you're going to build this half hopefully when we put it together it works as a whole it's kind of you know cuz engines are so easy right oh yeah exactly right the bottom of the food
(17:32) chain yeah exactly yeah yeah that's that's incredible so yeah so really another wonderful experience and then I moved into different sales jobs at prad I had North and South America I had customer support for a while um you know and then you know I moved into Asia so I I moved around a fair amount with the engine Alliance I did a lot of work in the Middle East uh you know with the the big carriers over there um so you know never imagined that I would travel the world as much as I did and you know just
(18:00) have the ability to experience all of these different cultures so and you know to allow my family my son to to experience that as well yeah which is very Co so really really grateful and you know never would have foreseen this career right I know some people you know are very focused and they know exactly where they want to be in five years and what they want to be doing 10 years that was never me uh you know I had an idea of what I wanted to do at Pratt but certainly getting into the business I I no idea what a
(18:28) wild and wonderful ride was going to be yeah yeah yeah now do you think the um your your time in to lose with with working with Airbus did that kind of help you you know with the engine Alliance kind of getting created was that kind of having you know having work with Airbus already did that allow you to kind of have that connection and so it made it easier to kind of go in that in that direction right probably yeah because Airbus of course is an amalgamation of you know started out as four different countries coming together
(18:58) right to to build an airplane um and they were a big you know instigator and supporter of the engine Alliance as well right because they they you know wanted a good engine for the airplane to to go along with the Rolls-Royce option so yes definitely seeing how all of those cultures you know and you know people from the different countries and their own different home companies could work together um yeah it uh Dent Alliance seemed a lot easier right just bringing two US companies together versus this you know European
(19:27) Consortium yeah the grand Airbus was super supportive of the EA and and it was really fun working on the A380 it was something new and wondrous right at the time um I remember even in like I think it was December 2000 Charles Champion was the head of engineering at Airbus and he just pulled everybody together for a little champagne toast to to launch the a3xx into the A380 so a special time to there yeah yeah yeah it's very cool um so so through that journey I think I know answer to this question but I'm curious
(20:01) you've done a lot of things what was the most fulfilling gosh you know a number of things I would say certainly you know I would say some of the things I've already highlighted the uh the tulo job was fulfilling just because I felt like I was kind of more in the the middle of the action right working with Airbus was a lot of fun I really admired you know the Airbus team uh and having my own team over there you know a mix of expats and locals that we brought together um and and working on something like the
(20:36) n380 was um was special uh and similarly at the EA doing something different having some autonomy um you know something unique right that was you know that was special also in fulfilling because we we really moved the ball along we got you know some really good Marquee customers and had a good product um I would say as well um you know my time in marketing at Pratt I led marketing um during the early gtf days and Courtney I think that's where we initially met when you were so so that was a really uplifting
(21:12) time right we were we were being Pratt was being really Innovative um and we were engaging customers and dispelling you know doubts and untruths that were out there about the whole geared fan concept and I just want to be I just want to be clear since we're recording put this on the record me's uh most fulfilling time was when she met me did you did you hear that Garrick like it was pretty explicit I think I missed that I think picked up that subtlety yes I tried to slide it in there cour caught me yeah
(21:45) yeah and I I'll say one other fulfilling time which may sound weird but um it was during Co you know which was obviously debacle for so many reasons um and you know certainly for this industry but I I felt a responsibility to my customers and my team during that P time that was you know it was so difficult so wanting to keep my team pumped up you know we're working from home we we had Asia we couldn't travel there so we're doing a lot of Zoom calls at night because of the time differences and then you know
(22:17) you're slugging it out during the day uh with you know Pratt again on Zoom you know looking to get deals done or support for the customers um you know Pratt did the right thing going in doing a lot of retrofits while airplanes were down on the gtf during covid so you know managing through all of that it it you know it was a certainly a dark time it was a burden you know just being on the phone all the time and you know you know trying to reassure customers um but it you know at the end we you know we we did a lot for the
(22:53) customers um and I think the team felt good about that and then of course things came roaring back much faster than anybody could have anticipated but I I think we did well uh you know as well as could be expected during Co yeah I'm proud of how Patt and I and the team handled that that's something that we're hearing I I think I think people are more comfortable now to say that they found satisfaction during that time because it was so it was terrible it was terrible but like you said you know I I absolutely
(23:30) felt this way as well like there was also this you know everybody was all focused on on one thing it's a big problem but there was a really kind of fulfilling almost um you know almost like almost like we we paired down our Focus to kind of this this Collective the collective thing I I know Darren um Darren Hol from Boeing mentioned a lot about that about how they worked with the team and it was just kind of this you don't know in the moment moment right it's Terri the moment you're just right you just feel like you're drowning
(24:03) um but but we were like you said it was a collective everybody was in it right so you you felt this I don't know camaraderie of sorts I guess it really did yeah oh yeah absolutely yeah and that's that's the I think that was the the big takeaway I think even at the beginning right in terms of there was that lull of you don't know what's going on nobody knows what's going on and then you know to me there was a shift of like we should talk to people more often right so that we can kind of talk
(24:33) through things or hear about other things that are going on and that that yeah that creates that Collective of like oh yeah so what what are you hearing what do you guys think about this and then all of a sudden you know you're it's not just you kind of going oh my God I don't know what's going on it's more like no everybody else doesn't know what's going on right and so how do we get past this going to last exactly what happens next yeah it really brought a lot of people together right um which
(24:59) was you know yeah one of the one of I guess probably one of the better things that came out of that right where you're you know you're definitely willing I think I think people were more willing to do things for others during that time than because all a sudden it was like oh do you need help yeah how can I help right it's like it's you know you put everything else aside because you're like you know what we're stuck here anyway right so it's not like I have other things that distract me how can we
(25:22) help other people uh and go through this together so yeah and the customers you know I mean I felt for the airlines gosh I mean they were laying people off I mean people left the industry right it was hard to get them back so it's um yeah know I I really felt for for the customers for the people um and so yeah I mean staying in touch with them as much as possible was meaningful yeah you couldn't couldn't always do what they asked for what they needed but you know you could try and they knew that you
(25:52) know we were working to support them yeah and how quickly people forget right now now think you the good times are rolling yeah I would love to hear about your transition into the sales side um and how you found that the challenges the the the benefits the surprises whatever it's it's been through my own career was it was a it was a real challenge to to go to the explicit sales side did did did you find it as as challenging it sounds like being a lobbyist is not that different from being a salesperson but but how was
(26:33) that transition for you yeah so I I did have a lot of good training for it you know being a lobbyist yeah government relations person yes you you know effectively are in sales you know you're you know you're making contact with people you're forming relationships you're looking to persuade and to present your message so um yeah so so certainly that was good training um and even in media relations the same thing I mean I I you know viewed the the press as my customer right so same thing wanting to get my my messaging right get
(27:03) my my facts right of course too um and so right so so very similar so and then being in the contracts World helped me by getting you know deeper into the details of it um as well so I could speak you know more articulately about you know the variety of elements that go into a sales campaign in fact um I listened to your podcast with Andy Shanklin a while back um and I was pleased to hear him acknowledge how important the uh the engine piece is in a sales campaign in a technical evaluation in a life cycle cost
(27:40) evaluation because I think you know previously you know I don't know how many years ago you know the engines were just kind of seen as oh yeah there a supplier and yeah you'll figure it out later but it's become increasingly obvious right that the engines are so complex and they're you know a big part of the life cycle cost and the maintenance cost and the reliability and durability of the product that they are you know for better or worse I guess front and center you know much more so than they were so
(28:08) so getting to know those technical details the guarantees are super important and there are gosh hundreds of different guarantees you know that you can provide uh you know on on engine performance so so that gave me very good grounding as well um and then yeah it did seem maybe kind of more of a natural move to to get into sales and certainly working with the likes of ilfc and gatx and CIT was you know a good trial by fire too those were not shy people they're still not shy people they're out there now still um so yeah just gosh
(28:43) jumping in and doing it is um is what makes it fun and then you know I I cover different parts of the world so knowing you know that you need to adjust to those cultures right you can't go you know swanning in as the American and just you know kind of talk fast to people say of course this is the way it is it's you know you need to be measured and you need to read people and understand you know the Japanese are quite different than the Brazilians and you know so Andy Shanklin was Andy Shanklin was one of my mentors on the
(29:13) sales side uh I had many um but one of the other key ones was Chris Jones and you know Chris Jones right sure I his podcast too with you two of my very favorite people in the industry just great mentors specific to the sales side and until I realized something that British accent gets them a long way oh don't that's cheating that is just straight up cheating and and you show up as American and you're like wait a minute nobody cares to listen to me so much fancier yes I agree yeah wow yeah which so actually um on that right so
(29:49) you covered Asia Pacific and China right he said you're so how did you approach that coming from obviously not only being an American but also also being you know an American woman going to a culture where you know obviously they I think they've they the culture itself is very different right so how did you like adapt to that to be able to you know kind of get H ultimately well and I I'll even kind of add a little extra something to that when I was asked to take that job I think it was in early 2014 my house had burned down um right
(30:25) after Christmas in 201 had a lot going on uh I mean just totally burned down there was a fire in the garage they never figured out what started it but um yeah we were home we got out everybody was okay the house was obliterated wow unbelievable so in the midst of all of that um they asked me oh would you and I at that time I had the Americas and I had customer support kind of two jobs in the midst of all of that they said oh we're making some changes can you go do Asia and China for us so you know certainly a lot more travel and
(30:57) just a whole new world so once again my husband stepped up really took care of the line share of the insurance the rebuilding all the spreadsheets having to do with the the firing compan um so yeah so off I went to do Asia and China I did have some experience because working with the engine Alliance I worked a lot with Korean Air um and and the Japanese Airlines too un successfully with the Japanese Airlines but successfully with Korean Air so I had that grounding and Korea was always and still is a very good partner with
(31:28) Pratt and Whitney so we had that very strong bond that relationship so I had some of that experience going into the new role but yeah definitely you know and China was a whole new world for me um but I I did find and you know there was some trepidation you know being a woman but you know I find you know China there there were some women in senior positions at the Airlines and I found too that having a title frankly is helpful um and I you know I'll say too you know I'm I'm reasonably tall I'm six
(31:59) I think that helps too you know just and the way you carry yourself yeah yeah um so but but again understanding you know I think you know with with the Chinese you can be you know pretty Frank you know with other Asian cultures you need to be you know a bit uh more reticent or you know just just take it a little differently in China we needed translation a lot I mean we we had a team based in China that that I worked with but you know often we would have translation issues so you know there's that as well but um but no and the
(32:30) Chinese you know very um very hospitable you know some you know dinners and camaraderie and and you know very friendly uh and open too so you know ultimately I mean ultimately people are people right you you need to kind of measure how you deal with them and and understand the culture you don't want to put a foot um in the wrong place but ultimately people want to be respected right they want to be valued and they appreciate obviously honest right and that was something you know you go through in any company in sales or any
(33:03) position there's going to be you know good things that happen and bad things that happened the the products are complex they're not perfect um so owning up to that um and having that credibility is super important as well that gets you a long way you mentioned something early on that peed my interest because it was a challenge that that we had um Child Care um and it was a it was a real challenge for us because you don't think about it until like it's it's a you have to you just you just you just have to
(33:38) how do you I'm not sure exactly how I want to ask this question but but I guess frankly it's do you think you would have accomplished what you were able to accomplish had you not been able to solve that again it's it's it's it's it's a relatively short period in the career but it's at such a critical but it's it's a point in your career when you're you know you got a lot of momentum theoretically right if you're in your you know in my case I was in my mid-30s when I had my son but you know
(34:06) you're in that late 20s 30s when you're really you know trying to to rev up so I no between the combination of having that really reliable CH Carol and a super supportive husband um no I absolutely would not have been able to put as much focus on the career and the customer and my team um as I have you always strive for that balance right but sometimes I mean it's not a day-to-day balance it's more of a week to week or month to month I think right sometimes you know you you really have to focus on
(34:37) the family sometimes duty calls and you really have to focus over here on the work but I think you know hopefully it evens out in the bigger picture but on a dayto day you know it's it's probably not but you know but I'll I'll say too you know people make assumptions hopefully not as much anymore about women with children um you know when I was being considered and considering the the role in too I had people saying um you know oh she won't move you know she's got a husband she's got a kid she's not going anywhere
(35:10) so these were men you know making assumptions about what I was going to do just based on my personal life and obviously proved them wrong went over to too was a fabulous experience for all of us so I guess that's another um thing I I do say to people that I Mentor is don't let people make assumptions about you make sure you make your wishes clear there's not going to be a little angel that Taps you on the shoulder I mean maybe once in a while somebody will take you on the shoulder but for the most
(35:38) part you've got to be clear on what it is you want and make that known uh so that other people aren't making up your mind for you I think it's helpful to understand as well that guys kind of do that we're way more obnoxious right so the point being that if you're not as obnoxious like you're just not it's they're not going to know like right well and there and there's this um this View and I think a lot of it is based in fact that you know women feel they need to have 110% of the
(36:10) qualifications for any job right where men feel ah if I got 60% I can figure the rest out and that's probably the right approach right to to say look I think I can do most of this yeah you know I'm I'm happy to learn more I know I can learn more women you know often feel I think that oh gosh I've got to perfect I've got to know everything I've got to hit the ground running from day one and so perhaps they're more reluctant to to raise their hand for a position um but I you know I have
(36:39) learned from my mentors that you know I maybe I'm capable of more than I initially thought I could do and that just gave me the confidence to go you know for for more and bigger and better roles well I just uh just had mention of this today but somebody asked me kind of on the the business side they said you know would you rather be a good consultant or a loud consultant and I'm like I'd rather be a good one they said that's the wrong answer there's no reason you can't be both right we think
(37:09) that the loud means you're not good and they're completely un unrelated um we tend to We tend to correlate those two things that if you that if you speak up that somehow you're compensating for some something that you're a blow hard or something that you're a blow hard but but the two don't if you don't by the way you're nothing you just you're just not a part of the conversation you're just not because you can't be you're you're not you haven't you're waiting to be noticed right it's
(37:41) it's a lot harder and i' I've struggled with that just on the business side Garrick knows I never say anything like I'm super quiet I see that yeah yeah that's right yeah I know nobody knows what Courtney's thinking ever you know on a day you know minute by minute basis every day so but yeah no it's it's true but it yeah sorry you know I'll add something too you know as you talk about fulfillment um you know I've been able to to do some other things outside of my day job and
(38:15) again this is another message I try to impart to folks that I Mentor is you know look outside you know to the extent that you have the bandwidth and the interest to to other elements you know I got involved in uh the wings Club um in fact Kevin M you know mention Kevin mallister who was head of GE sales at the time called me up and said hey you know we you know we look for some folks to serve on committees at the wings club would you help and you know join and maybe had the programs committee or participate on the programs committee
(38:44) which lines up the speakers so so that was kind of a cool thing to do to get involved in the wings club um which I've always you know environed and enjoyed going to their lunches and eventually you know I did other roles and became president of the Wings Club Club um which was a lot of fun um and that is you know it's a became a charitable 501c3 organization doing out you know hundreds of thousands of scholarships to students who want to study Aviation so that's been a really fulfilling element um things like airlink I'm involved with
(39:15) airlink you know which uses Aviation to provide humanitarian Goods to to people in need I I'm actually now the treasurer now why you would put a salesperson in charge of Treasury I don't know but show they are I never had that luxury at um so so you know I'm the treasurer at airlink and just see all the good work that they do right you know you know working with key uh Airline stakeholders and others just to bring you know goods and people where they're needed to all these disasters around the
(39:48) world I was on the istat um Foundation board serving on the humanitarian committee so just having these different opportunities to you know to see the good that Aviation does right not only is it a great career um and not only does it bring people together bring Commerce together but it does a lot of good you know Aviation is I think like more than 4% of the world GDP is attributed to our industry so there's a lot of jobs associated with it a lot of productivity obviously a lot of innovation technology um so you know all these
(40:23) reasons why it's such a a cool place to be yeah yeah yeah absolutely um so I'd love to hear your you know obviously your your transition now into you know some of the stuff that you're doing with with jet zero right that's that's a pretty exciting you know there's a lot of a lot of discussion about some of the stuff that they're doing but I'd love to to kind of hear how you moved into that and and what's going on there yeah so right so I retired from Pratt at the end of 2022 um went out I think with a bang we
(40:51) had just won the quantis deal um earlier that year which was huge for Pratt to get back into quantis they were NEOS and in a220s you know with the gtf and that was a campaign that kind of started during the the tail end of covid so a lot of that was zooming with you know a Australia um we'd have to zoom with you know quantis in Australia Airbus and Singapore Airbus and tulo and then being in East Harford on the time zones we were the ones calling in at 11 o'clock at night um so but but it turned out to
(41:22) be ultimately a successful and and really well done campaign so uh so at the end of the year I retired um after more than 35 years with the company um and then you know wanted to take some time off figure out what would come next knew I wanted to stay connected to the industry and you know certainly still with the wings club with airlink um I'm on the board of the Connecticut Airport Authority which has also been really interesting learning about that side of the business so keeping those things going but then um some friends of mine
(41:52) uh were on The Advisory board at at aink you I'm sure you know Warren Willets and Nina Johns and Barry Eon um so they talked to me about jet zero which um was developing is developing this Blended ring body airplane which provides you know promises super um you know fuel efficiency aerodynamic efficiency um you know coming from the airplane right all of the efficiencies we've seen over the years have really come from the engines right the significant steps forward you know like the the gtf like the leak and so on
(42:28) that's all been the engine at the airplane you put some winglets on you you trim some Arrow here and there but the double digits been coming from the engines Boeing and Airbus would disagree with you but I would not yeah yeah I think you kind of look at the let's call a spade a spade look at the fast Jack yeah yeah I mean especially in in recent decades right of course the basic same airplane yeah right I mean the the airplanes have been around the same design for decades so this is is is now a step to
(42:59) do something quite different rely on the airplane to get you that efficiency and that fuel economy um and you know the the founders um Tom o and Mark pagee Mark um is a really a legend in aviation you know he spent his time at Douglas working on Blended Wing body there moved to Boeing uh you know tried to further it there they weren't interested at the time so he left and did other things Tom comes from the tech industry he was an early Tesla guy he's been at Beta Technologies so he knows you know that
(43:29) part of the business so putting those two guys together along with you know a wonderful team of innovators really creative thinkers from from who who come from other parts of the uh the industry you know lots of folks from greman uh I I'm sorry from Gulf Stream uh northr SpaceX um you know Pratt uh you just people from from all over Airbus you know with Barry um so it's just been really kind of energizing working with that team as a member of The Advisory Board we meet regularly we go out to their facility in Long Beach they're
(44:03) right there at Long Beach Airport they um they have a hanger out there with a cabin knockup that is tremendous when people go see it it it Sparks all kinds of creative thinking because when you look at that Blended Wing design right the obviously the the interior is much wider uh much broader than than the the usual tubin Wing So it opens the door for all kinds of Innovations with regard to cabin seating uh and passenger Comfort to the extent that Airlines care about passenger Comfort which I hope they do still um so it oh it could be
(44:38) worse yeah yeah well and right we'll leave it at that um but but just so so so it's you know the cabin opportunities the passenger Comfort the fuel efficiency so you know it's the economic and environmental benefit um and just the the energy behind you know doing something different for for the industry and you know for the planet too right so so that's been just like I say really energizing and and really loving working with my fellow Advisory board members too you know these are folks I've worked
(45:09) afar you know from afar with you know in my position in Pratt now I get to collaborate with them I think that's that's wonderful the uh jet zero of course has been uh a topic of conversation for really the past couple years I think they've they've really kind of just continued to to progress but at IAT this year yes there was just a lot of talk and and the conversation usually goes like this Oh there's uh a new OEM they're building I don't know pick your favorite electric hydrogen supersonic I don't know
(45:44) whatever and everybody's like uhhuh yeah yeah no I'm I'm sure they are this year it was like oh yeah jet zero is there like oh really oh this is interesting there's a very different I mean I it's this certainly isn't just just my um my observation people are talking about wow not only are they really interested in kind of what jet Zer was putting forward they're interested in how many people are also interested oh okay there's there's um there's I I don't know the
(46:18) groundwell is probably a bit strong of a term but um I okay you would you've been in media see you been a speech writer you would know but but the idea I I think there's also something there in not just on what zero is doing but separating the wheat from the chaff when we're talking about all these new technologies and there's so much you know Eevee told this how many of those there's like 300 somebody counted it at some point so we're constantly being inundated with promises MH and separating that it's a real challenge
(46:55) for anybody in in the industry defin um how how does as as much as you're involved how what's jet Zero's approach to that because they also have not been what I would call loud they've just kind of been doing work and oh by the way this does a thing right yeah so they they've been measured um they were in stealth mode for a while until last year kind of middle of last year and and even you know stealth mode was new to me know coming into a startup right um but yeah so but but they've been they've been
(47:33) measured because they want to demonstrate the heft uh at each step along the way so I think the you know kind of the big unveiling came that the team went to the Paris Air Show last year you know had a lot of customer meetings a lot of um media meetings also and investor meetings um and then shortly after that last August um the Air Force announced a $235 million contract to to Jet zero to develop a tanker demonstrator so that was really kind of the big unveiling I would guess and certainly a big shot of credibility
(48:07) and confidence in the company um because the Air Force you know certainly realizes more and more that the you know Asia Pacific Theater is where you know a lot of the threat lies and you need really long legs to be able to support uh any activity over there so now all of a sudden you know fuel efficiency becomes more important and more relevant so they really liked the jet zero approach to that fuel efficiency you know having this you know this design and and the demonstrator will be built by scaled which is a Northrup um you
(48:41) know entity so and obviously Northrup knows that kind of flying wing to that yeah um so so that's you know just kind of a great Confluence of of of money of credibility of strong partnership with somebody like you know scaled compos um and then from then on you know there's just been other Milestones you know that that have been reached and that are approaching the company's going to be flying a um it's like a 12 and a half% scaled uh prototype called the Pathfinder going to be flying that out
(49:12) in the desert to demonstrate some of the aerot Technologies some of the the landing gear Technologies which are kind of keing to the unique design um and then you know the demonstrator will fly in 2027 and certainly a lot of Engagement with commercial uh and toties commercial airlines because that's certainly where the volume is um and the Air Force would love to see that you know compatibility with a commercial product to help keep their own cost down so it's it's really an it's a very Innovative approach you know the team is
(49:46) just so committed and that's something you know I think that you see throughout this industry in aviation there's just so many talented really committed dedicated people and just with real enthus I ASM for what they're doing and you know for the promise of of all of this Innovation and yeah mean you talk about evall you know hydrogen you know there's just 20 30 years from now gosh things are going to be so much different I think um and and you even jet zero is looking to that because you know while
(50:14) they're going to operate with you know Jed a and and saf certainly in the near term the airplane can accommodate hydrogen when the time comes um and and maybe just on the subject of saf you know the AATA AGM is coming up right in early June and certainly iata had launched I think it was three years ago the Whole Net Zero Challenge and their View at the time was that 65% of that Improvement would come from sath and I think only 133% from new technology but I think you know we're starting to see how much more difficult the saf solution
(50:49) is going to be it's going to take longer no doubt it's going to be expensive so we can't rely on saff we've got to look look at at technology and Innovation and I think the jet zero solution is a great way to address that it's definitely I mean I'll call it unique it's not necessarily novel though right we have I mean the Blended well we we called them flying wings in the past and it's a little bit different than that but as I look at these new technologies there's always with with each of the new
(51:21) technologies there is a this needs to happen to unlock it so the infrastructure the ability to just grow uh create the saff with electric it's battery density it's energy density with hydrogen it's well uh the cryo I mean that's that's still out there right so infrastructure and the infrastructure absolutely all all the same things there's always kind of that one thing that unlocks it for that new technology what what what is the one thing that needs to be unlocked for zero to be successful not
(51:59) as a company but as a technology well I think um you know frankly investment right this is a capital intensive industry so I you know the team I know is very confident in the technology you know Mark paig and his colleagues have been working on this for 30 years right they know it inside and out um so I think very confident in technology What It Takes and you know bowling and Airbus have really not focused on this I think Airbus is looking at some version of it maybe in the future for their zeroe but it's not a priority because they these
(52:31) guys have thousands of airplanes and backlogs so why would it be a priority right now um so making sure um we can secure that investment um you know to so that we can you know you know get into rake production we can you know build these huge composite structures you know have a good um you know manufacturing location uh you know hire all of the people we need so that's that's really I think the fundamental the team is Extreme ex L confident in the technology um and you know there you know there there are some things with the composits
(53:03) that you know we bought some experts in from SpaceX and elsewhere to uh to address for us so you know as long I think as long as we can secure that investment uh there is very high confidence that this airplane can can really make a big change is there a if I look at all the other competing techn I'll call them competing they're not really but all the other new technologies we're talking about one thing that I that I think they all have in common is they work better they don't scale well they so they work better on
(53:35) the small the small side first evl obviously electric doesn't scale all that well um up into the larger aircraft uh even The Rise program is really kind of a medium narrow body at the largest um right at um and the is looking at a at a larger right like more of a wide body right you're absolutely right am I wrong in assuming that the opposite is true for jet zero that there's actually a it actually scales better up than down is this is this a potential large Long Haul whitebody Solution on the front
(54:14) yeah right now it is aiming for the the middle of the market where there is really no entrance right um you know we've seen you know certainly Boeing talk about a middle of the market airplane that hasn't materal yes about 250 packs you know 4500 to 5,000 artical miles is kind of The Sweet Spot for for jet zero right now but it does have the ability to scale the team has developed um what they call a y plug so with a tube of course you can just kind of insert you know a section and and grow the airplane we'll have to show give you
(54:50) a demonstration of the Y plug how that fits but that adds it adds um certainly capacity it grows Wing a little bit but the two then balance each other out um you know to continue with that same aerodynamic efficiency so it's very clever approach so yeah know we'll we'll get you aside and both of you guys um yeah yeah I was in Long Beach two weeks ago which well to to the comment on Long Beach when you land in Long Beach and you see the fly Douglas Jets and you know the history of that airport and
(55:24) like I love that that jet zero is is out of long is Liv Heritage yeah absolutely so no would love to host you you'll be Gob smacked at the cabin and just all the other technology the team I'm down for a good Gob smacking that'd be really cool but but may I also recommend yeah free advice uh that could use kind of an engine Alliance is engine you know I mean you could you could run the whole thing I know I know a former president ah do you ailable should be great yeah well well interestingly you know
(56:02) because the airplane is um is new and Innovative um the team is aiming to keep the rest of the systems as much commercial off the shelf as possible love it so so right so you know you want to drisk as much as possible you know recognize the fact that the the aerrow improvements are coming from the airplane and you know let's support that as much as possible yeah and that's to me so all this stuff is why people don't leave Aviation right I mean we we all we all see people at these conferences that you're like man
(56:33) this person has been here for like ever why don't they just retire and go away but no about me Garrick are they no not not yet not yet not yet no definitely not I mean they'll definitely be saying that about me in like five years time they're probably like gck really should go yeah five years Garrick yeah I I think so maybe they're saying that now I don't know but but no but it's true like every time time you're like okay you know what couple more years and I'm done it's like
(57:00) there's something else that comes up where you're like oh I want to see where that's going to go it's it's yeah it's really interesting that the the Jets stuff is really cool talk about you know Blended Wing EV tall hydrogen you know rise Ultra fan nextg gtf gosh there's so much more to come right we're not nearly done there's just lots of innovation lots of really creative smart people absolutely you mentioned uh earlier in the conversation multiple times and in fact I think I even uh agreed uh verbally but
(57:36) the progression over the last couple decades in commercial air aircraft the efficiency is coming largely as a result of the engines and how Jet zero is is different are are you joining the dark side m is this oh are you now an air framer I'm an engine guy at heart I will say always always and that's one reason I think they they ask me to join The Advisory Board I'm I'm an engine guy I'll say and a really a customer guy also uh I really enjoy working with the customer so yeah and and you know you
(58:13) get all of that with a with a company like jet zero and just that you know you know having been with Pratt with you know big Corporation for all my career now working with a startup like this so different right I mean the culture's different the Energy's different the gosh the the ability to get stuff done it's it it's just really interesting uh to to be part of you know some some stuff I I don't quite understand and other stuff I'm like wow yeah why didn't we ever do that you know
(58:40) so it's U no it's I'll just say energizing again so the engine business model has evolved I think is a way of putting it um yeah it's evolved uh over the course of your career uh for for sure I I'm not I'm not calling you old at all thank you thank you um I'm just saying that wow you got a lot of experience but but it's that um I mean in the context of jet zero right where we're now starting to shift back to the airframe which needs to happen you know to carry your own weight you know tube
(59:25) and wing uh there are better ways to do it now can we manufacture it right these are all things that are being resolved but it's that engine the the the model of the business model of Building engines how it's evolved through the jt8 um through the the V series and ie um into the gtf um how I guess how does that one evolved but how do you see that evolving into the future is it is it more the same or have they kind of caught on that wait a minute you're taking a lot of value that that we're providing right yeah no
(1:00:08) certainly um you know to to get on to the the Neo right um with the gtf that was a big bet on everybody's part on on airbus's part on Pratt's part certainly um and Pratt needed a boost right then you know Pratt you did not have great market share at that time um it had elected not really the participate participate in the widebody market anymore um so yeah so Pratt you know put a lot into the gtf and rightfully so and it's it's done wonderful things obviously it triggered a mass of other things happening right
(1:00:44) you know Boeing really resisted they did not want to do anything on the 737 um less ores I remember vividly did not want to shake up the world they lik things just the way they are right they were at the time with just the they don't ever like to shake up no so so we had a lot of headwind um and and pushed through it because we you know Pratt had a really Stellar product and and Airbus took a bet on it and that like I said just really triggered a whole lot of things um so certainly that demonstrated if if anyone had forgotten I think it
(1:01:15) reminded people how critical uh the engine is to to the whole landscape right the the airplanes get a lot in the glory the airplane oems are certainly front and center um but now I think people have come to appreciate a lot more the value um and the implications uh of their engine selection so hypothetically if an airf framer uh we'll call him just just off top of my head bobus I don't know just just a random OEM says look we want to build uh a new aircraft program but we need kind of a gamechanging engine
(1:02:02) technology to make the economics work how willing do you think the engine manufacturers are today to make the same kind of bets the same kind of bets they made in the past in the same business model or is there going to need to be kind of a a change in in how that's done going forward well I think certainly ideally uh and you know I don't know how you know blue sky this is you know engine companies would like you know maybe more of an airframe investment than just taking orders from the air the air framework um you know
(1:02:40) certainly engine makers have always worked with Partners right it's too big of a bet for any one company you know GM GE and saffron have the CFM Enterprise you know Pratt have IE and rolls at IE um and even on other name plan engines the oems have their Partners in MTU and jaak and others so there's always been the need for multiple company um investment um but yeah you would like to see I know the engine companies would like to see the air framers take a bigger stake uh now that you know would then mean maybe your sole source right
(1:03:15) which the air framers and maybe the customers don't like so it you know you can quickly kind of talk yourself out of that line of thinking I think but you know it is billions of dollars to develop a new engine you know we've seen that um and especially as you P push the bounds of Technology they don't work perfectly right out of the gate so there's retrofits and there's work to be done and you know there's customer disruption sometimes so yeah it's it's all super expensive um and as you
(1:03:44) probably know the business Vel traditionally has been that the engines are heavily discounted up front um and then you know more and more for the right reasons Airlines have signed up for um you know Fleet hour agreements you know over the course of 10 or 15 years and So eventually the engine makers get their money back but boy there's a big dip before that curve starts going up and swallow doesn't that work against the new design for instance uh if if I put a new winglet on an airplane I'm like and I'm going to put a new
(1:04:18) engine and I'm going to sell a bunch of these airplanes and if they come to me as an engine OEM One of the thoughts that might be running through my mind is wait a minute you want me to invest a bunch of money to make the engines I make money on today obsolete right I know there's a look we're all technology progresses we're all very interested in technology but that this is what I mean by that business model it's the cash flow being so backend heavy and the engine M's going through what they're going through
(1:04:57) and the value that they've brought is there hesitancy to jump right back out and do that again and and and sacrifice the cash flow that you need to make the first one work right so there's a cycle right yeah you can't cannibalize yourself too soon in the cycle uh yeah just doesn't make any sense uh and and you know unlike the airplane makers the engine makers really live off of that maintenance stream right it's not nearly as important in the airplane business model so there's kind of an inherent
(1:05:29) Clash right there in the financial calculation um but you know the the engine companies are perfectly perfectly capable of standing up for themselves and saying this just doesn't make sense and and we've seen that you know as you know as aerus has pushed for higher production rates you know both Pratt and GE CFM have pushed off and said look our supply chain can't handle it you know we we can't set ourselves up for failure so there you know there are there are different you know objectives and and
(1:05:57) different business models at play here and you know you obviously have to you know make sure you stand your ground for for what's the right thing for your company and your shareholders uh while also making sure you are busily investing you know behind the the curtain so that you're not left behind in a competitive landscape going forward uh and you know we've certainly seen that play out you know in some of the OEM situations today um but yeah and you know we all hire strategy people and Market forecasters to figure out you
(1:06:29) know when is that next cycle when is that next technology going to be ready when is it time to pull the plug and then you have surprises um certainly covid um and you obviously shook things up and then the fact that things came back so fast we've had supply chain issues and we've had durability issues we're finding now that airplanes operated by P PW 2000s and PW 4000s are more in demand because there's just more lift needed to fill the holes created by some of these other situations um so those airplanes and those engines are
(1:07:02) having you know kind of a new lease on life that certainly hadn't been forecasted probably five years ago um so yeah you got to stay on your toes in this business I find that absolutely fascinating it is it's really interesting right because it's kind of a you know so you look at all the different you know issues and the struggles that all of the oems are having which and and there's no no one OEM I think that's that's not having issues today right um and so from that standpoint yeah they're all focused on
(1:07:29) look let's let's fix what we can you know fix to be able to move on and you know be able to generate the revenue that we thought we were going to make with these products um and so in the meantime right they're focused on this and they're not necessarily focused on let's put you know billions of dollars on new stuff but yet you have other you know so from from the standpoint of you know when you've got companies like like jet zero or others that are looking for investment right how how challenging is
(1:07:55) that when and you know if you're looking at as an investor if you're looking at putting money into a new platform or a new you know technology you're also understanding like look you know we we know that these guys their resources are focused on their current product and how much are they going to be willing to put money into the next generation of stuff right so I don't know how much risk we want to take in supporting you when we know that you're going to have challenges right so what how how do you
(1:08:21) get how do you get past that right how do you kind of keep that wheel going because like you said there was a t a capital that needs to be put into Innovation right right right so no I mean well You' got to obviously you have to have a good product and a you know kind of a good thesis behind it right to to even have that conversation um you know ideally you can point to a track record too now you know a a new company like J zero doesn't have a track record of its own but it's people have track records from their previous lives right
(1:08:50) and and that so that gives confidence um but yeah it's a it's a it's a long-term bet uh and like I said you know these companies hire a lot of Market forecasters to try to figure out when is the right time what is the right thing to be ready with and you know how can we you know how can we you know kind of invest our own money how do we amass our own money to make sure that we're not going to miss out when the time comes you know we we hear lots of companies saying oh nothing's going to happen
(1:09:18) between before 20135 or later right um because they are very busy paying for what's happening today um and need to put the focus there customers want the focus there right um they want to make sure they're taken care of today and oh yes yes I definitely want the next new thing when it's ready but don't short Change me now for some pie in the sky um so it's yeah it's it's it's a big tug of- War you know within all kinds of companies as to you know how do you allocate finite resources to the present and to the
(1:09:51) Future so I have an idea this is an idea for for Rick dulu for Rick Duru excuse me call him up say hey Rick listen I think you should invest Pratt should invest in jet zero why cuz they're the only air framer potential air framer that's actually pulling their own weight kind of literally and figuratively right like Hey listen we've been funding effectively you know these these air Fame programs and we want to partner this time I don't you don't want to you don't want to burn boing an air bus
(1:10:27) right but but the whole the whole idea the whole idea though and this is what's so unique about jet zero it shouldn't even be unique but it is it's the only it's the only kind of potential future platform that that doesn't rely on a Tob determined propulsion system or doesn't require you know2 billion engine investment yeah or or a major like like like battery dens or or cryo hydrogen and I mean that gives me nightmares at night for the guy trying to figure that one out but right like that so anyway free
(1:11:08) that's free for for Rick more free advice there you go just suggest but but it's uh it it's it highlights jet zero right and why it's why it's different there are challenges but they're very different right we're talking I I'll tell you so I the the best uh uh push back I've heard on jet zero is yeah we're not going to have Gat space big enough I'm like seriously that's your biggest concern right now like if that's the problem we'll park two of these things at a whatever we'll
(1:11:49) pull up a bus it doesn't matter right like the the efficiencies you get out of this are way better than pement and jet zero is anticipating being able to fit existing Gat space so yeah we don't want infrastructure getting in the way yeah wish I'd known that before yeah yeah back at you yeah one other thing I I want to mention too just as part of my whole kind of career Arc is um again kind of just focusing on women in the business um I'm on The Advisory Board of the international Aviation women's
(1:12:19) Association Iowa um and I have found that to be just a very welcoming collegiate supportive and inspiring organization frankly uh I know there's you know other organizations women in aviation there's Amir you know a number of of entities out there but you I just want to kind of let women know reassure women that there's a lot of opportunity out here you know and a lot of places where you can kind of you know huddle with other women you know if you want to and and kind of get career advice or you know
(1:12:51) just kind of sound things out so it's you know certainly I think PR has done a fantastic job of being welcoming to women and you know you know basically all people who are interested in aviation you know and I'm seeing that more and more across the industry uh certainly Jed zero has some wonderful women with excellent experience in senior positions which is which is really heartening to see too so you know we're we're half of the population you don't want to you know kind of gloss over half of the population when you're
(1:13:20) looking for smart people to move your company forward I just want to point out not entirely true you're over half the population cuz we do yeah yeah we we tend to off ourselves doing something stupid my beer watch this that's usually like that's true but but you're right so carry on I'm sorry MIT we always to say 51% of the population maybe more than that with the brains but yeah fair enough what um wait what wait what but so what's what's really interesting about there's a historical
(1:13:56) context to this and that is we've seen this type of thing before what we're going through right now not just in aviation around the world we've seen something like this before and it was right after World War II when you had kind of these shortages yeah you had a lot of men coming back from uh from war found their place in in the factories but the economy grew and the the labor shortages were largely filled by the other half of the population that was there that was not even considered at that time was not even considered a
(1:14:32) potential part of the workforce and here they effectively doubled the workforce right and now we're back and and we're going to be in this for a long time um we're not going to see the uh the kind of Labor um excess is isn't the word but um nor is oversupply but the not shortages um these shortages are going to be something that will Define the next couple Generations because population growth just isn't what it was so if there's ever been a time for for women to not only be needed but feel feel the
(1:15:10) the the need and the ability to to get in it and and rise up it's now it's only going to get it's only going to get better so Now's the Time you know in fact I um I was at an event a couple weeks ago um hosted by the Aerospace component Aerospace component manufactur in Connecticut which is a group of gosh I don't know a couple hundred um you know small businesses small to medium businesses in Connecticut that are in the industry there you know they suppliers to Pratt to GE to airus Bing
(1:15:37) you know pretty sophisticated companies um and there was a speaker there who talked about yeah just that that there is a need for people in this industry for skilled technicians um you know for people up and down the you know the aviation food chain and they are definitely afraid that in Connecticut and you know throughout the country that there is just not going to be enough people uh going into this business a maybe not enough people period but also not enough people coming into this industry so they're worried that they're
(1:16:06) going to have to kind of get more you know investment into robotics to replace the people that just aren't going to be there so yeah it just speaks to the fact that this you there's tremendous opportunity out there um and and you know the smaller companies feel it first perhaps and they they are worried about it how they're going to get the you know the talent that they need to to to be viable producers for the for the long term yeah which is I think that that's super interesting because it's when you
(1:16:34) think about you know for for your everyday life right you go to go to you know stores like especially in the retail side right you see it every day and there's fewer and fewer people that you get to interact with FiOS and right you know the self checkout the you know basically soon it's just going to be there's going to be one person that's there just in case something happens and so the the mentality is is you know okay so everybody is trying to get rid of people because machines can do a lot of
(1:17:01) the things but whereas if you look at Aviation it's really the opposite in terms of like the skill is needed the people are needed because it requires a skill level that you can't do just with the you know with automation or with AI or and you and you need human engagement too I mean you know that's you know I mentioned them on the board of the Connecticut airport authorities so I see that at Bradley Airport too just a constant need for people to support ground handling and gate agents and you know all kinds of functions yeah so yeah
(1:17:30) no definitely we we need more more people coming into the industry no matter what they look like yeah well that's it right I mean at the end of the day it's not if you have if you're interested in aviation yeah you know step forward and do what do what you can it's not it's not about you know your upbringing who you are where you're from nothing to do with that right just you know bring your brain your curiosity and your energy yeah right because I mean that's you know we as all of our guests
(1:17:53) that we have on right I mean everybody's so pass about what they do that's what it's about right if you have that passion then come on in right that's that's we all love that world out there it is yeah yeah yeah I want to give an example uh a shout out I may have actually mentioned this before there's a YouTube channel called Stig Aviation have you heard of this guy he's a line mechanic for American Airlines and he just personified like he just record his job and explains and he's a
(1:18:27) he's a a line mechanic he's literally turning wrenches and he loves his job like it so uh first of all great on this guy because what a recruiting tool just just to the industry I mean it it's it's wonderful I'm watch this stuff all the time I learn a lot too um but then also um I don't get to say this often but I'll I'll say it today kudos to American Airlines uh um for allowing that and recognizing just how important uh putting the idea that being passionate about what you do is a good thing it's
(1:19:06) not a RIS being genuine and being and and authenticity like these are all the things that the vast majority of people in aviation share and I I just just thinking of that guy it's just it's truly fun to to watch this guy just talk about the r random things uh that that he sees on the line but the technicians especially like there's just a critical critical need uh for for technicians kind of around the world and we talk about the mro shortages and supply chain it's all part of the labor and and Aviation just as
(1:19:43) you said is is just more and more susceptible because people still are required we're we're going to be right yeah it's just I think the uh maybe the hesitance is it's not a a quick path right for a lot of the the skill that's needed to do certain jobs right yeah no there's lots of training yeah yeah right whether it's a pilot whether it's a mechanic whether you know it's kind of you need to go and I and I think that I think the the younger Generations today is more like well no I want to do
(1:20:15) something like tomorrow right I want to get there tomorrow I want to run the shop tomorrow and so you know but that you just kind of get past that right you have to kind of try to get people reality exactly yeah yeah yeah so um but look this this has been you know really really fun um you know we're certainly L kind of hearing your background um and you know kind of I there things that I learned about you which was great um that I didn't know and so that that's fun I we always certainly appreciate all
(1:20:42) your views on what's going on and all the things that you're working on today which is super exciting so um want to thank you for kind of taking that time to to to speak with us and share your your career path I'm sure you know all there we'll definitely appreciate that so thank you very much well thank you no it's a lot of fun really great to reconnect with you guys so uh yeah know really enjoyed it um and come on out to Long Beach and be Gob smacked okay that's an open yeah absolutely said in
(1:21:09) for a Gob smacking like that's so so interesting M thank you so [Music] much I need to put together a podcast of just outakes like for the the past year and a half yeah that'd be I mean with the yeah cuz we probably actually have enough for a show yeah when you think about they're all about like about a minute or so so it' be like it wouldn't be it wouldn't be a full hour but it would still prob be like I don't think anybody should listen to that for a full hour